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Post by wrathofzombie on Dec 17, 2010 8:21:09 GMT -5
For you critical effects you may want to look at Stunts from Dragon Age. I don't know if they'll work with the Hero system, but they are fun and entertaining.
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Post by djkester on Dec 17, 2010 12:12:44 GMT -5
Wrath, I will be taking a look at that! It sounds like a cool mechanic. I love the idea of "major success" or "critical" and I really want to extend the idea to include things that happen other than +damage. I'm going to be looking at various systems to find some cool ways to accomplish these "heroic" moments. One of my personal goals in gaming is to have things feel and be Heroic. I'll plug *this* post I did about D&D last year on that. There are various ways to accomplish this critical success effect in Hero System. I've posted on the Hero Games forum and gotten various suggestions on modeling DnD's critical but I think I want something more like these Stunts and/or Rolemaster's criticals.
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steve
New Member
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Post by steve on Dec 19, 2010 2:00:09 GMT -5
In my 4E game I used crits on a 20 and fumbles on a 1. The fumbles always granted combat advantage to enemies. In addition I had the player (or NPC) roll a d6, on a 6 for crits or a 1 for fumbles they drew from a card deck.
Paizo puts out crit/fumble decks. Each card is sub divided into slash, pierce, bludgeon or magic. Each entry has a short description of some additional damage and/or effect.
The players generally enjoy the card decks and randomness they throw into the combat. When an opponent crits a player I like having the player roll the d6 on themselves then smile as I fan out the card deck in front of them, "pick a card... any card".
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Post by djkester on Dec 19, 2010 13:11:05 GMT -5
Steve,
Welcome to the boards. Yeah I love success and failure events. I like the idea of a random effect like a card deck at the table.
I wonder what others think. Is it better to pause the game for the dramatic card draw or just roll a dice and lookup the result on a table. I mention this because of the negative "non-emmersive" interaction that power cards have on the game.
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Post by mistrlittlejeans on Dec 23, 2010 8:47:05 GMT -5
One mechanic I love is the Check from Mouse Guard. MG has two turns, the GM's turn wherein the GM presents the patrol with various obstacles, conflicts, twists, and/or conditions. The second turn is the player's turn, in which the players take turns spending checks to create any scene they would like. They can use a check to try to recover from a condition (such as being injured), seek out a gift for a loved one, start an argument with an enemy, or even start a fight with a fellow patrol member (as long as they want to fight back). Checks put the player in complete control of the narrative, which is really empowering as a player, and exhilarating as a GM. It's also a nice means for players to pursue any desires that were not touched on in the GM's turn, so every player can scratch that itch, whatever it may be. I should also point out that players can earn more checks by hurting themselves during the GM's turn. This makes for some great roleplaying situations as players use their traits to reduce their chance of success during a test in order to earn more checks (actions) for their turn.
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Post by mistrlittlejeans on Dec 23, 2010 9:33:50 GMT -5
Double post, but I've been up since 3 am with my sick daughter who finally fell asleep, so sue me.
Another mechanic, well really it's a philosophy, that is love is "Let it Ride" from Burning Wheel and Mouse Guard. "Let it Ride" means that when a player makes a skill test, the result holds until the scene changes or something happens to change the conditions of the scene. I guess in this case a scene is akin to a 4e encounter, combat or non-combat.
Example: The party's rogue wants to sneak into the bandit camp and steal a satchel containing documents vital to the quest. As he approaches the camp, the GM calls for a Stealthy test (stealth check). The player passes. The rogue has to cross a small stream to enter the camp, so the GM calls for another Stealthy test. The player passes again. The rogue tiptoes into the camp and sees that one of the bandits is posted as a sentry. The GM calls for a third Stealthy test. The player rolls his eyes in annoyance, but again he passes. Finally, the rogue is within reach of the satchel. As he grabs it the GM call for yet another Stealthy test. This time the player fails, and the GM says, "Oh, I guess you stepped on a twig as you were leaving the grrrrrrrrrwwawwwaaaararg" as the player leaps over the table and strangles him.
A player is eventually going to fail if you make them perform enough tests (skill checks). I've encountered this time and time again in every Dnd game I've played in. I get cold sweats every time the party approaches a door in a dungeon.
DM - The door is locked. Rogue - I'll pick it... fails. Fighter - I'll break it down ... fails. Ranger - I'll break it down you pathetic weaklings ... fails Wizard - I'll use a spell... fails. Rogue - I'll trying picking the lock again... success!
My eyes just rolled back into my head as I was writing that. Seriously, if the players are supposed to get through the door, just let them open the freakin' thing in the first place. If you want some randomness, have them test. If they fail move on OR let them succeed with a negative consequence.
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Post by anarkeith on Dec 23, 2010 14:41:59 GMT -5
Loved this mechanic for Kung Fu in D&D. I think this can be expanded and/or tweaked to be a template for a core mechanic. Imagine a fighter who can, on certain rolls, disarm or disable an opponent; a rogue who can gain positional advantages and extra damage; or a ranger who can inflict mobility restrictions. Each class could have their own flavor of "Kung Fu".
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Post by wrathofzombie on Jan 6, 2011 7:36:09 GMT -5
One really cool mechanic that I've discovered is "Raising the Stakes" as part of the E6 for DnD. Raising the Stakes is a way to add spice and drama to a combat or skill roll situation without adding massive modifiers so it is basically impossible for the player to do. I've done it as a GM and I've been on the receiving end as a player. An idea pops in your head and you ask the GM, "I want to jump onto the table and slide, using the momentum to crash into the bad guy and knock him on the ground." GM: "Ok. Roll me a dex check -2 (because that's what the rules say- or even more of a negative since it is actually more than one action) and if you make it, then roll me a grapple check to see if you grab him. GM: *Rolling Rolling Rolling* "Ok, yeah. He succeeded his grapple check. He face palms you and laughs that your mother actually bore you." With Raising the Stakes it is more of a bet where what the player or GM desires to happen is staked against something of a negative realm that is equal to the positive effect. Using the above example, "I want to jump onto the table and slide, using the momentum to crash into the bad guy and knock him on the ground VS me flying off the table and crashing into a bookcase and being prone." The GM can either say ok, or no bet because it may be tipped too far in either direction. The Raising the Stakes rules are on page 6 of the document I've attached. Check them out. These rules can be used in MANY systems. Attachments:
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Post by anarkeith on Jan 7, 2011 22:03:32 GMT -5
Anyone know of, or have an idea for, a mechanic to refresh expended resources? I'd like to have a less vulnerable-to-abuse option than, "we rest until we're back up to full strength." I've got to imagine there's a cool resource recovery mechanic out there, that's simple and adheres to Nate's notion of simple action for the player equating to a complex action for the PC.
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Post by anarkeith on Jan 8, 2011 0:02:44 GMT -5
OK, here's what I came up with: Combat & Magic Point RecoveryAfter an encounter, or at the DM‘s discretion, recovery of used combat and magic points occurs in two steps: PCs automatically recover points used equal to the points they have remaining (unused). Choose either CON or WIS (player choice, or highest ability modifier). A player may roll a number of d4 equal to their CON or WIS modifier. Players are always allowed to roll at least 1d4 for this check, regardless of the modifier chosen. Using the highest value returned by a single d4, PCs recover a percentage of their total combat or magic points according to the following breakdown: d4 result | percentage | 1 | 25% | 2 | 50% | 3 | 75% | 4 | 100% |
All point values recovered are rounded down.
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randy
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by randy on Jan 9, 2011 17:49:27 GMT -5
Keith, I think the first thing to do is to define what the reduced resources (combat/magic points) are meant to simulate. It usually is to reflect fatigue and built up exhaustion from combat/exertion. Then the question is how you want to reflect this fatigue (using point expenditure in your case), and how to recover them. To me it seems there are two types of recovery: short-term (immediately after the combat/exertion), and long-term.
Short-term recovery after combat would only affect those points used during that combat (you can't recover long-term endurance with exertion). Perhaps you would get a percentage back on those points (which could be modified by what percentage total you used- if you wanted some extra calculation, or ignore it if you don't- it would be more "realistic" if you accumulated more long-term fatigue by really pushing yourself). Any points that were not recovered would go into the long-term bucket, really all long-term fatigue would just be the accumulated short-term fatigue that was not recovered.
Long-term recovery would come after a certain time period without exertion. Actual rest would probably speed this process. The main question here is do you want to give total recovery after this period, or a roll that returns a percentage of long-term fatigue.
I don't think there is anything wrong with "resting until we are back at full strength", as long as the parameters are defined and fit your world. Of course the party may be interrupted before that happens...
Your proposed system here (if I understand it correctly) would let your players enter a combat fatigued (with less points than their maximum) and come out of it fully charged. I think you have added complication without a clear benefit (from the perspective of simulating combat, "heroic" fantasy feel, or realism). Perhaps your first step (some recovery after combat based on points used) could be used to determine short-term loss, and then your second step (a recovery roll) could be used after an appropriate rest or low stress period. You are on the right track, just needs some tweaking.
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Post by anarkeith on Jan 10, 2011 0:43:23 GMT -5
Great points, Randy. Thanks! I'll think more about this.
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Post by anarkeith on Mar 3, 2011 20:00:06 GMT -5
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